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JimDesu

I don't see any of this as a problem for LEO, only for the tools to apply it. Of course, any text comprising a political argument is going to have speach that isn't indicative of the position being taken. For instance "in his call for supposed 'social justice' my distinguished colleague from Tennessee demonstrates that he's a total melon-head". This text shouldn't up the E score of the speaker, but my tallying program will do so, since it doesn't know the meaning of anything. Don't confuse the power of the philosophical model (which appears to check out) with the insufficiencies of my scanner-tool. The reason that judicial stuff isn't coming up well, IMHO, might just be because they're actually presenting arguments, not just blowing smoke for their constituents. Analysis of legislators' speaches benefits from the high signal-to-noise ratio of their rhetoric, by which they imply "bird of a feather"-status with their constituency. SCOTUS-member have more complex rhetorical needs than that, and so will probably need hand-tallying.

jonathon

Jim,
The "melon-head" statement in your comment is a very good example of language that demonstrates an antiposition, a sort of "false echo" that a context-blind dictionary tool is likely to return. Interestingly, a curious artifact of the LEO model is the presence of antipositions as having distinct ideological signatures. Someone who defines his ideological position in strictly negative terms may appear at first glance to hold to a certain preference, but in fact only holds antipathy for a certain position. For example an individual may appear to some as a conservative or a libertarian but expends most of his breath on how much he hates liberals. This is neither conservative nor libertarian; this is an anti-liberal.
Depending on how he expresses this antipathy, a tool like your dictionary tally might give him a false 'liberal signature'. I thought about this, and decided to look at the language of Justice Rehnquist's dissent directly. There that I found his argument carefully constructed to avoid overt ideological language. This is what brought me to consider the overall rhetorical volume of his dissent in contrast to the rhetorical volume of the majority opinion in Roe.
I had not read any part of Roe until this project. Suffice it to say, the language of Roe seems pretty unusual almost any way you look at it.
I recall Mark saying something about how attorneys then to refer to Planned Parenthod v. Casey instead of this one. If this be so, I can see why.

Mark Zuniga

I am interested in how much of the majority opinion was subjected to the LEO test. The first part of the opinion has to do with whether Roe has standing to bring the lawsuit.

[Courts do not offer advisory opinions. There has to be an actual controversy for there to be a lawsuit. One could have argued that there was no live controversy because Roe was no longer pregnant by the time the case went on appeal.]

It's possible the opinion on standing [which no one on the Court seems to disagree with] might skew the LEO test results with regard to abortion generally.

It's also important to note that the debate at the SCOTUS is not whether there ought to be a law banning abortion, but whether a law banning abortion is unconstitutional. While there is a great deal of constitutional analysis that is less than well-principled, one does have to go through a constitutional analysis rather than a policy one.

The majority argument (based to some extent on the sterile environment of the court) looks at the previous opinions that established a right to privacy when it came to the issue of reproduction [e.g. the delightful "penumbras" of the Griswold case] and applied it to abortion prior to the third trimester [or, now, viability]. I think the Court thought it was taking a reasonable, moderate position, and would have been comfortable with a high "o." The justices had to have been stunned by the reaction to this opinion.

Rehnquist, on the other hand, doesn't address the appropriateness of the law, but rather is unwilling to take control away from the representative democracy.

BTW, while the analysis the majority opinion uses in Roe is somewhat unconventional, something like it was recently used in Roper v. Simmons, which held that execution of a minor is cruel and unusual punishment.
http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=us&vol=000&invol=03-633

That opinion was written by Kennedy, a moderate conservative who generally is not pro-criminal defendant.

I myself would never use this legal reasoning in a court. It's accepted far too rarely.

jonathon

He' Mark, glad you came back.
I'm aware of the rule of restraint regarding hypothetical and advisory cases (i.e. "ftlog don't do it"), but I don't recall having excerpted the opinion regarding the legal standing of the case. You may be right about pointing to that subset in the majority opinion as a source of a possible establishmentarian skew. I'll have to chop the opinion into its substantive sections and run the tests again, it would seem.

I did notice that particular feature of Rehnquist's dissent, which actaully squares nicely with an effort not to inject ideological language into his opinion.

What's particularly useful is that this lays bare the difficulties inherent in analyzing legal opinions, and it'll certainly help to refine the application of this test to such sources.

Jeremy

Yeah, that's kind of what I was expecting. And I'm not surprised that the concurence looked like that either, it's the main majority which feels the weight of trying to look like they're fitting in with old law/principle.

I don't know if you can run significance tests on these things, but are any of Renqhuist's factors statistically different from each other? That count is fairly low.

Finally, that sort of wide literary discussion isn't too rare in the more unusual cases, but it's not something you'd find in a contract dispute. Especially when creating a principle for the first time judges will put on their "living oracle" hat and search high and wide for a principle to "declare". They especially love delving into the early common law, Cook, Blackstone etc. and also love an obscure latin maxim.

As legal & equitable principles have become more solidified these sorts of musings have become rarer, obviously, so you don't see it too much nowdays. Modern judgements are much more boring and Statute-based.

jonathon

You're right Jeremy, Rehnquist's scores are _awfully_ low in this opinion. This is one of those cases where a significance check is probably in order. My knee-jerk sense is that the results of the Rehnquist sample are not statistically significant. I'll see if I can run a x^2 sometime today.

jonathon

Jim,
You're probably right about the hand-tally, although judicial decisions can be awfully difficult to wade through. Jeremy just did a series of tests on Australian High Court decisions and the results came up meaningless. Strangely, a test of his own blog came up like he expected. Here's his address:

http://modleft.blogspot.com/

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